I really enjoyed the podcast. I think what I'm still thinking about is when Orenstein said that "it's easier to talk to our children about sexual violence than sexual pleasure" and how if we're comfortable in discussing sex, we're comfortable with the "don't"s. I wonder if specificity plays a role. We don't delineate the do HOW. "Respect women" - like yes but HOW. Some steps, some guidelines, some authenticity... I liked what she said about it not just being a one-time conversation. I feel like in media you watch adolescents cringe at "the talk" but really it should be the talks, plural. Earlier in the interview, she mentioned how sex education shouldn't just be "anti-assault" but positive sexuality, and I couldn't agree more. Towards the end she spoke about "personal authenticity" and seeing oneself as a human being, which made me consider how masculinity replaces humanity, and how devastating that must be.
As a lesbian, I have had opportunities to get "in with the boys" over our shared attraction to women. However much I wanted to fit in and build social capital with the boys, I found that we appreciated women so differently that it was always incredibly dehumanizing to attempt to bond with the boys in that way. On a positive note, I hope that these boys and young men enjoy the "broader scope of humanity" once they minimize toxic masculinity, and that they can have conversations with their boys to get the intergenerational dialogue flowing so things can improve as they go on!
It was nice to hear a conversation between Mark and Peggy especially since she referenced her book, which I have not read. I agree that the article is a snippet so its easy to make judgements about the boys since we don't have a full picture of how long she has known them. Mark, did she say in her book she had more ethnic and class representation in her book and the Atlantic chose what snippets to publish?
Hey Jennifer, thank you for listening! The book is definitely more representative. There’s a chapter that focuses on African American, Latinx, and Asian boys / young men. As for class, I’d say the book is similar to the article: There are lower-income students, but mostly situated in colleges or college-prep high schools. (I appreciated that Ms. Orenstein said in the interview that she did this on purpose, to serve as a companion to Girls and Sex.)
I really enjoyed the podcast. I think what I'm still thinking about is when Orenstein said that "it's easier to talk to our children about sexual violence than sexual pleasure" and how if we're comfortable in discussing sex, we're comfortable with the "don't"s. I wonder if specificity plays a role. We don't delineate the do HOW. "Respect women" - like yes but HOW. Some steps, some guidelines, some authenticity... I liked what she said about it not just being a one-time conversation. I feel like in media you watch adolescents cringe at "the talk" but really it should be the talks, plural. Earlier in the interview, she mentioned how sex education shouldn't just be "anti-assault" but positive sexuality, and I couldn't agree more. Towards the end she spoke about "personal authenticity" and seeing oneself as a human being, which made me consider how masculinity replaces humanity, and how devastating that must be.
As a lesbian, I have had opportunities to get "in with the boys" over our shared attraction to women. However much I wanted to fit in and build social capital with the boys, I found that we appreciated women so differently that it was always incredibly dehumanizing to attempt to bond with the boys in that way. On a positive note, I hope that these boys and young men enjoy the "broader scope of humanity" once they minimize toxic masculinity, and that they can have conversations with their boys to get the intergenerational dialogue flowing so things can improve as they go on!
It was nice to hear a conversation between Mark and Peggy especially since she referenced her book, which I have not read. I agree that the article is a snippet so its easy to make judgements about the boys since we don't have a full picture of how long she has known them. Mark, did she say in her book she had more ethnic and class representation in her book and the Atlantic chose what snippets to publish?
Hey Jennifer, thank you for listening! The book is definitely more representative. There’s a chapter that focuses on African American, Latinx, and Asian boys / young men. As for class, I’d say the book is similar to the article: There are lower-income students, but mostly situated in colleges or college-prep high schools. (I appreciated that Ms. Orenstein said in the interview that she did this on purpose, to serve as a companion to Girls and Sex.)